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Let’s hear the story of Nebraska, its communities, its number one industry Agriculture, and the people who make it happen. Sponsored by Nebraska's Law Firm® - Rembolt Ludtke.
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Ann Post--Zoning and Land Use Issues Impacting Nebraska Agriculture
Nebraska’s farms and ranches utilize some 44 million acres of land—almost 90 percent of the state’s total land area. A variety of factors, including the disconnect about where our food comes from and a growing emphasis on sustainability, have led to increased zoning and land use regulation in states like Nebraska.
This episode features Cuming County native Ann Post, an attorney with Rembolt Ludtke who specializes in real estate and land use development law. Ann has significant experience dealing with zoning issues surrounding confined animal feeding operations, green energy projects and agritourism businesses across Nebraska. She shares her unique insight on how to best navigate these complex issues.
Welcome to 93, the podcast where we talk about Nebraska, its communities, its number one industry, agriculture, and the people who make it happen. I'm Mark Folson, your host for today's episode, brought to you by Nebraska's law firm, Rimble Platte. Nebraska's farms and ranches utilize some 44 million acres of land. That's almost 90% of the state's total land area. A variety of factors, including the disconnect about where our food comes from and a growing emphasis on sustainability, have led to increased zoning and land use regulation in states like Nebraska. It's complicated, so we thought we would bring in an expert to give us an overview of the zoning and land use issues impacting Nebraska agriculture. Today's guest is Ann Post, a partner at Rembolt Lutti, who specializes in real estate and land use development law. Ann, thanks for joining us.
SPEAKER_02:Hey, glad to be here today.
SPEAKER_01:So uh you have a rural rag background. Why don't you uh tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?
SPEAKER_02:Born and raised in Nebraska. I grew up in West Point, Nebraska, actually an area of the state that's known for some of its uh cattle feeding operations. Uh I was a West Point cadet, so uh, you know, proud of that.
SPEAKER_01:Your high school is the cadet?
SPEAKER_02:I know, right?
SPEAKER_01:That sounds like a military school.
SPEAKER_02:You know how often that our high school um the front office got calls for people trying to get to the military school? No, it is not a wet a military school in West Point, Nebraska. But you know, we uh it makes everybody do a double take, right?
SPEAKER_01:So West Point, what is that Cumming County?
SPEAKER_02:Cumming County.
SPEAKER_01:And what is the license plate prefix for Cumming County?
SPEAKER_02:24.
SPEAKER_01:All right, you get to take a credit for yet another county out of Nebraska's 93 counties. So again, do you you have an ag background or do you have family in ag, correct?
SPEAKER_02:Right, right. I know uh family and ag, family that have been that work in cattle feeding operations, uh farm. I think my parents actually uh ran a ranch for a while, but you know, I've grown, so I've always grown up um adjacent to agriculture, been involved, been in West Point in the area for cattle feeding, um, and then was able to kind of take that and parlay that into my legal background, which is you know, dealing with some of these um zoning and land use ash issues as they relate to agriculture.
SPEAKER_01:So your husband's family, I know, is involved in agriculture, but uh your maiden name may uh certainly carry uh some weight with Nebraska agriculture. What's your what's your uh maiden name?
SPEAKER_02:Right, Langemeyer.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, there are a lot of Langemeires involved in Nebraska agriculture.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:So when it comes to land use law, is that something that's state-specific or are there some general principles that go across all 50 states?
SPEAKER_02:Mark, I wish it was state-specific. It would be easier if it was state specific. Land use law is hyper-local. So what that means is that it is specific to the city that you're working in, to the county that you're working in. Um, you know, you go 10 miles down the road and the laws change. Everything that you're operating under change.
SPEAKER_01:Is there just is there some book uh that I can pull off the shelf that says, here's the laws in Cumming County, here's the laws in West Point, here's the laws in uh, you know, Bridgeport, Nebraska, wherever it may be. Is there a central resource for that information?
SPEAKER_02:You know, there's really not.
SPEAKER_01:You are you it?
SPEAKER_02:Really, you have to go and you have to call that local county, that local city or village to try and get their regulations. Depending on the size of a village, that can be harder, easier or harder. Um a lot of times you can pull them offline. There's some resources where they're compiled, but those uh sometimes those aren't up the most, the most up to date. Sometimes they haven't incorporated the newest changes that you know were voted on two weeks ago. So really have to go to that jurisdiction to get their codes.
SPEAKER_01:So if I went to the website for a Nebraska County, it may be that the zoning regulations they have online may not be up to date?
SPEAKER_02:You know, likely if it's that county's website themselves, they're probably pretty up to date. I think if you went to, I you know, I think the university has a resource where they have compiled some county, county zoning ordinances or village zoning ordinances, those if that that's updated once a year, that may not as be as up to date.
SPEAKER_01:So let's focus on Nebraska and these counties and these cities. How is the ability of a landowner to do whatever the heck they want with their own property, how is that regulated in Nebraska?
SPEAKER_02:Right. So that's regulated through usually through zoning. And so really the purpose of zoning is to make sure that we're not putting incompatible land uses next to each other. You want to make sure that you don't have a manufacturing facility next to an elementary school, right? That that generally makes sense.
SPEAKER_01:Or a liquor store.
SPEAKER_02:Right, right. So so it makes sense. You may want to separate those. That's one aspect of it. The other aspect of it is making sure that your public infrastructure can support the use. So that means, you know, if you do have a manufacturing facility, can your roads support the trucks that are coming in and out of that? Do you have the water supply or do you have the you know water lines that can support that facility? Uh is your sewer size right? And so that's the other aspect of land use is making sure that all that public infrastructure that you're gonna need there to support that growth, to take that ground from you know, dirt to um to an animal feeding operation to a manufacturing facility, that the infrastructure is there to support it. And so those are those are the two things that a lot of your zoning will really look at to um and why and how that land use is regulated. So what that means is that every city and village and county has their own, almost every, there is a county in Nebraska that actually doesn't have any zoning.
SPEAKER_01:Do you dare tell us what which which county it is?
SPEAKER_02:I believe that's Butler County.
SPEAKER_01:Oh wow. It's the Bohemian Alps that explains a lot.
SPEAKER_02:And so almost, and again, that's where it's hyper-local, you have to check every time that they're all gonna have their own set of ordinances that say exactly uh what uses can go where, and then uh what uses can go where, the type of streets you need, the type of, you know, the space you need to have between those uses, improvements that you need to put in to make sure that that use fits within the community. And so um that is really the essence of zoning and what the goal is of all those regulations at the end of the day, to make sure that when you build and when you grow, you do it in a way that is supported and the community can support, just with from an infrastructure and a use perspective.
SPEAKER_01:So given that agriculture is Nebraska's number one industry, we would assume then that counties are more than happy to encourage agricultural development in their counties. Is that true?
SPEAKER_02:You know, um, I'll give the lawyer an answer. It depends. It depends. Absolutely. It depends on the use, depends on your view of an agricultural use. Um, you know, I I've in some counties, and if you talk to some people, they say see some renewable energy uses as an agricultural use. I think that could be something that would be hotly debated depending on the person that you're talking to. Um so you know, some counties are, some counties are, some depends on your agricultural use.
SPEAKER_01:So I noticed that the Nebraska Department of Ag uh has something called a livestock-friendly county program. What is that? And if a county does, in fact, that have that livestock-friendly designation, does that mean that uh they're going to allow, you know, livestock feeding facilities, things like that, if they're going to be more likely to allow those to be developed?
SPEAKER_02:I would say if a county has that designation, it's a positive. You know, it's not the end all be all, but it's absolutely a positive. You know, what that means is that the county has recognized the value of livestock to that county, recognize the value of bringing producers to that county. And so they've actually made active efforts to look and say, you know, what do our regulations do? How can we supportive, be supportive of that or try to bring these um these types of operations to the county? So all of that is positive. Now, if it comes down to actually getting your zoning, um actually getting your zoning, getting your approvals, it really is going to, it's gonna come back to the it depends. What it what it is, uh, what are you proposing? Where is it? What do the neighbors think? Who's on the board?
SPEAKER_01:So I realize it's county and city specific, but walk us through the normal process in most counties. If you want to build, let's say, a livestock facility, uh, what what steps do you assist these folks in going through? What hoops do you have to jump through, and who's the final decision maker on that?
SPEAKER_02:Right. So the first thing that I always have to tell tell clients, prepare people for is that you know, take your timeline, how long you think it's gonna take, um, and double it. They it just takes a it always takes longer than people expect it'll take. So usually what that process looks like is first you have to look for a site. You know, what you're looking for really depends on the local regulations, but uh especially you're looking for something that is um can have those that necessary infrastructure, what the road looks like. Do you need rail access? Is there a road? How far are you from a highway? Do you have a paved road? Would be fantastic. Well, depending on the the traffic you're anticipating generating with the use. Can you get electricity there? Is there water there? So you're looking for a site that meets that criteria, then you need to start expanding by looking at the zoning. A lot of times with animal feeding operations, there are requirements for how far away you have to be from residences. And and usually then that can be waived if the homeowner would agree. And so you're looking at can you find a magic spot that doesn't have residences anywhere near it, yet somehow still has electricity and water and all of those uses, which is a unicorn of a site. Um, or are the neighbors near willing to waive that, willing to, you know, to sign that waiver to be supportive of this livestock operation will be another one. I think I would also note that oftentimes sites change. You may come in with an idea of what your site is gonna be, and then as you start to work through all of those factors, you you narrow that or pivot to find a new site. There's always one step forward, two steps back in any kind of development project. What you end up with is never quite what you thought you were gonna get at the beginning of the process. And so you look, you're looking at sites and you're weighing all those factors before you finally come to a site that you think is workable. And so at that point is where you finally put, once you have all of those answers put together, at least on a conceptual level, is when you start to put together your application. Your application is so generally livestock operations aren't allowed by right. What that means is you do have to go and get a permit from the county, usually the county that you're in, um, for the livestock operation. They're gonna have a list of criteria you have to meet, like we talked about that setback, how far are you from residences, um, other criteria that you're gonna have to meet. So you start to put together your application to say, here's your criteria, here's how we're gonna meet them. Now, a lot of times with those applications, you really run into a chicken and the egg issue. So, for example, you might not know exactly how you're gonna handle your livestock waste at the stage of zoning. Remember, zoning is just to get the permit to even use the area and you're not you haven't engineered your site yet. Every site is gonna be engineered differently based on you know topography, you know, what the soil looks like. Every, you know, you if you move your site a mile down the road, your engineering is gonna look different. And so you need to be able to meet those criteria, but you're also at the point where you haven't engineered the site. I mean, this is still the first step in a very long road. And so it's making sure to be able to answer those questions with the information that you have, and then also um giving the assurances that once you have your zoning is when you move on to that um approval process with the Nebraska Department of Environment and Energy, where you start to engineer the site and show that you meet all of the criteria through that process, that next step.
SPEAKER_01:So on the county level, do most counties have a zoning administrator and then there is there a planning commission or does it go right to the county board or board of supervisors?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, oh great, great. Thank you. Thank you, Mark, for making me step that back through just the mechanics of the process. So absolutely. Most counties are gonna have, they're gonna have their zoning administrator, which is your first first point of contact, the first person you discuss the project with.
SPEAKER_01:You want them, you want to make that person your friend.
SPEAKER_02:You want, yes, yes, you want them to be your best friend because you know they don't make any decisions, but they can give you a lot of insight. They can say, you know, that there was an application three years ago that looked a lot like this, and here's what the board liked or didn't like. They can say, here's what the board's been concerned with lately. You know, this is the issue that's gonna come up in your hearing that you need to be prepared to address. Again, they can't tell you what the board's gonna do, but they've watched a lot of meetings. They they know what's going to they can be very helpful. You want them to be your best friend. So your first conversation should be with the zoning administrator so they can help you through what that application is, the information you need to provide, and getting that together and in a format to get to the board.
SPEAKER_01:And in most counties, does it go from that zoning administrator directly to the board of supervisors, or do some counties actually have a planning commission in between?
SPEAKER_02:There's a planning commission in between.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:So it goes first to the planning commission where there is a public hearing. It's the first bite at the apple. They have to hold a public hearing to talk through the application, um, to give the public a chance to comment on the application, and then they make a decision whether to vote yes or no on that application.
SPEAKER_01:So we so we know we want to make the zoning administrator our friend. We also want to make our neighbors our friends as well. So we probably start the couple years in advance giving them cookies, things like that, because we don't want them showing up at the hearing in opposition to our project, right?
SPEAKER_02:Right. Absolutely. When you look at a project, you always have to look at your strategy and how you work with the neighbors. You know, that would be you know, in some cases, you want to talk to the neighbors two years ahead of time, have lots of public meetings so that you can hear their concerns. Um, sometimes you have concerns that if a neighbor hears about the project, they're gonna go put a house right next to where you want to put your site because they are opposed to a cattle feeding operation. It doesn't matter what size or stripe or uh what level of technology you have in there to ensure that it is the you know best, most efficient, safest cattle feeding operation that ever existed. The best you can know your community really directs how you what your strategy looks like at approaching that public hearing.
SPEAKER_01:So part part of your job is legal, part of it is a little bit public relations too, correct?
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. You know, we want to be laying the groundwork for a successful project, a successful collaboration with the community because zoning is the first step in the process. You'll hopefully you'll be there for the next 50 years and a partner with that community for the next 50 years, 100 years. You know, you're building something that's gonna last. And so that's where, you know, that starts at the zoning, that starts at the very beginning with the zoning. And so that is to the extent we can we can know those community concerns, we can address them and really try to work hand in hand to find a fit that's gonna work best is absolutely what we want to do.
SPEAKER_01:Do these uh public meetings sometimes get uh hostile?
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely, sometimes they do. Sometimes they do. Um, and that's where also sometimes the best thing that you can do is have a great structure to your public meeting, which um you know, a lot of times people don't like the formality of that. But sometimes you get to a public meeting with a lot of upset people, but you want to give them all a chance to be heard. You know, you you want to hear what they're concerned about. If there are concerns that you can address in any way, you absolutely want to find what that is to be able to address it. You're not gonna be able to address everyone. Some people are just gonna be upset. Um, but sometimes they can be hostile. But so so you set up that structure to give everybody a chance to talk, to give them an amount of time to talk so that you can hear everything. And also at the end of the day, there's a way to hear everything, address it, and move past to the end, get to the end of the meeting so you can have more of a productive meeting.
SPEAKER_01:Because sometimes some of the concerns they raise may be valid, and there are ways in which in the design of the project you can actually address that concern, correct?
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. So, you know, a different example is I know I was working on a multifamily housing project where the neighbor said, you know what, we just think it's ugly. And they the my client said, Great, we can work on that. You know, what do we you want? Some more stone on the outside, you want some different colors, like we can do that. You know, then there are some other things that we just couldn't do. They want, you know, they say, well, we want to park too. So, well, well, that's not quite something we can do. But so that's absolutely is that that public hearing is a chance. If there is absolutely anything that is is a valid concern that can be addressed, that's what we really want to listen for to be able to um work through to work with the community. And it's worth sometimes sitting through that longer hostile meeting if you can find some of those nuggets that you can find a way to address.
SPEAKER_01:So in Nebraska and elsewhere, uh, the issue that seems to generate the most opposition or what are called KAFOs, confine animal feeding operations. Uh this may be a swine farrowing facility, a poultry barn, or cattle feedlot. How are KAFOs regulated in Nebraska? Not only from a zoning, but I think you also mentioned you have to get uh permission from the state of Nebraska as well.
SPEAKER_02:Right, absolutely. Like I said, zoning is the first step. So once you actually have your permits for zoning is when you can move on to engineer your facility. And then you have to get permits from the Nebraska Department of Environment and Energy. And those are the permits that look at you know how you're handling your livestock waste to make sure that this is a facility that is going to, you know, handle all those materials in a way that's proper to ensure that it doesn't have a negative impact on the surrounding community. I was also going to step back and I think we had talked about um what has the process looked like. We talked about working with the zoning administrator, we talked about working with the neighbors, about getting to planning commission. We didn't talk about the next step. Once you bring a project to planning commission, you get your vote at planning commission. That can be 100% in support of the project, that could be 100% opposed to the project, but at the end of the day, the planning commission's vote is only a recommendation. Either up or down, it is only a recommendation. And in all cases, you go on to the next step, which is then the board of commissioners. And so at the board of commissioners, it really depends on the county how much weight they will give to that planning commission's decision. Oftentimes, the board will say, you know, that is the planning commission's job. They're appointed to look at these zoning issues. We are really going to follow whatever they say, unless you give us a big reason not to. The the point is at the end of the day, what the planning commission said is only a recommendation. So the county board has their own authority to make any independent decision that they that they come to.
SPEAKER_01:And those are elected officials, correct?
SPEAKER_02:Those are elected officials.
SPEAKER_01:Might be their neighbors with the application, maybe a whole lot more neighbors in the audience who are opposed to the project, correct?
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. So that's where, you know, it may be close to the same presentation. It's the same project, but the considerations are different at the different levels. And so that's where, you know, your planning commission is your first public hearing, your first go around, there is always a second go around as well. Um, and so it's just trying to keep that consistency, anything that comes up in the first hearing, being able to address it by the second hearing, but also understanding even if everything goes As well in the first hearing, that second hearing is still a completely independent hearing, and you can't let your foot off the gas as you go to the next hearing. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_01:You want to try and win at each level, right?
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:So another land use issue impacting Nebraska agriculture is green energy developments, such as solar energy fields, wind turbines, carbon pipelines. What issues do these green energy developments give rise to when it comes to zoning and land use issues?
SPEAKER_02:Aaron Powell The first issue that they give rise to is that a lot of counties don't have the zoning regulations to deal with them. Is that these are, at least in the context of the zoning regulations that are out there, these are a new style of project that they don't even have the regulations to deal with. So oftentimes you'll see when a project is proposed, the first step is actually to look at the codes to see what's there and maybe to try and adopt codes regarding, you know, a wind farm or a solar farm, you know, what that should look like as far as those requirements for infrastructure, for for roads, for how far you should be from your neighbors, if you have to screen them from your neighbors. And so often that's actually the first step is to look at and try and adopt appropriate codes, which of course only gets harder when there actually is a project proposed in the pipeline to actually look at what those are and to adopt appropriate regulations. So that that's that's usually the first step. I think we're getting to a point where a lot of counties have already adopted codes, but not certainly not all of them, yeah. So the first issue is even having the codes to deal with it. The second issue then becomes the project itself. And actually looking um looking at uh how that project affects communities both now and in the future. For example, one of the things that we see with wind turbines is that often decommissioning provisions are built into the zoning code. So those are um those are provisions that say if you get this permit, you have to have figured out what you're gonna do at the end of the life of those wind turbines. Those are giant structures that have a uh definitely have an impact on on their footprint. What is it gonna look like to take those down and who's gonna be responsible for that? And you know, of course, our issue is we're trying to draft regulations for a time and look in our crystal bowl and draft regulations to address it. So the question is gonna be, you know, how long is that lifeline going to be? Uh, how much is it actually gonna cost at that time? And in some of these counties, you know, is there gonna be anyone in the community that even knows how to take them down? And so getting those regulations in place to try and to try and look into our crystal bowl and make sure that at the end of life we have provisions we have looked at and have a way to address those issues.
SPEAKER_01:So uh two different concepts. Can you explain the difference between these two? Concept number number one, I'll call a future land use map or plan, or will be called a comp plan in some counties. And then the zoning plan or the zoning code. How do those are those different and how do they differ?
SPEAKER_02:Yes, they are absolutely different, Mark. You know, that was one of my favorite stories that only gets chuckles from other people in land use circles. But as I rolled up into one community, they had a great um great local attorney who happened to be a law school classmate of mine. I start talking to this board about their zoning map, and they said, no, no, no, no, you're looking at the wrong spot. It's like, no, this is your zoning map. Um, they looked to their attorney, he confirmed the guy had been looking at the land use map for he gosh, he said he'd been looking at the land use map for five years instead of the zoning map. They're very different maps, Mark. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:People confuse him.
SPEAKER_02:So so the idea of the before you can adopt zoning, first you have to adopt what's called your comprehensive plan. Your comprehensive plan lays out how you expect your community to build out. If you look into your crystal ball, what you think your community is gonna look like 10, 20 years into the future. So the goal of that plan is again for that infrastructure planning. Just be able to build some of the infrastructure you're gonna need, you you need to start with something of a plan now. So, in that plan, you lay out how you think your community is gonna grow, how your current land use map, how your land's being used now is what's shown there. And your future land use map. Your future land use map shows how you expect your community to grow. Where do you think the next residential development is gonna go? Where do you think commercial is going to develop? Where do you think industrial should go? And so you highlight all those areas in different colors on the map, where you think it's gonna go. And again, you're looking into your crystal ball here. It's all predictions of what's gonna happen 20 years into the future. And then only once you've gone through that entire exercise is when you adopt your zoning map. The difference is your comprehensive plan and your future land use map are all guidance. They're all your predictions, how we think things are gonna go. Your zoning map is law that says this is the zoning district. You know, these are the uses, this is what you can do with your land in these nice areas on the map, designated areas on the map. And so all of your comprehensive plan, your future land use map informs the what you do with your zoning map, but your zoning map is the law. And then um it what you will also do is if you're you come in with a project that doesn't quite fit your zoning map, is when I'm gonna look at the future land use map. I'm gonna look at the comprehensive map to say, well, the project that I want to do, that I we want to put in here, doesn't quite fit within the zoning district. But based on our predictions for the future on how we expect the community to build out, this is a really good fit. And I'm gonna pull from that future land use map and the comprehensive plan to show how it is still a good fit for the community and how we can work within the zoning code or within the special permits that are allowed under the zoning code to uh find a way um to make that project work for the community.
SPEAKER_01:So one exciting development for diversifying the revenue opportunities for agriculture is what is called agritourism. It might be a pumpkin patch, pick your own field, vineyard, distillery, even hospitality or overnight stays, maybe attending a branding. Do zoning laws impact the ability of farmers and ranchers to be able to move into agritourism opportunities and do some of these innovative things?
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:How so?
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. I would say the most common example that we see is someone who decides, you know, I've got an old barn on my property. I'm gonna start hosting weddings here, right? Everybody's got that old barn that's charming.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I know that guy.
SPEAKER_02:I've known a couple of them. Yeah, right. And so so suddenly, you know, the issue with that one, of course, is that then they go to get permits for that and they realize what they need to do to actually put bring that charming old barn up to code for hosting events and actually having it as an event venue with people there. A lot of times the cost benefit isn't there. Um, but so absolutely, uh, agritourism is a great opportunity, but zoning has an impact on that. And really, when I look at that, you have to look at it from the context of once you take some, take a piece of land from farming, from your pumpkin patch where you grow and sell pumpkins, but you start bringing people there, you have a different impact on the infrastructure around you. Suddenly you have 300 trips a day on those gravel roads. You've got dust everywhere, you need parking. Um, suddenly you've got loud music playing that all of the, you know, all of the neighbors can hear, you know, may or may not like your taste in music. And so once you start to see those different impacts from your land use, is your key to know that there's probably there could also be a zoning issue there. So generally, um, agritourism is gonna require some sort of special permit from your county to get the authority and to get a permit to be able to have agritourism. What that permit, you know, like we said, it's gonna be different between every municipality, every county. But generally, what that should be looking at is what impact are you gonna have on the roads? What are you gonna need for water? What's the sound gonna sound like? Are you gonna be pumping loud music somewhere? And so the special permit is looking at those factors. Your new use of your land, how is that gonna impact everyone around you? Is it something that, you know, if you put in a uh a plan to spray your road with water twice a day during your peak season, something that can be accommodated, or is it something that is just not compatible with being out in the middle of the country that you're not gonna have the infrastructure to deal with?
SPEAKER_01:So too many of my friends in agriculture, and I'm not singling anyone out, but you know who you are, would rather just proceed with the project and then if they get caught, ask for forgiveness later. Is that a cost-effective way for addressing, as opposed to hiring someone like you at the outset, having to hire you to come in and fix it all at the end? Uh is is that the most cost-effective way, or are they better off just hiring you from the get-go to advise them?
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely better off at the beginning, getting those permits uh to start off. That's where you know, before you've put all your infrastructure in place, you've arranged where your parking lot is and how to do that. Um, you still have some flexibility. If you find the county has some concerns, you still have flexibility for how to address them. What you don't want to do is invest millions of dollars, hundreds of thousands of dollars or millions of dollars, only to later come in to get your approvals and find out that you can't get them. Or maybe you'd invested$100,000, you're gonna have to invest a million dollars to get those approvals. To find out that maybe you've booked tourists for six months out and um the county is actually finally brought action to stop it and suddenly you you can't accommodate three months of those tourists. And finally, whenever it actually becomes an issue with the county, the county becomes aware of what you're doing, it's gonna be 10 times harder to get those permits. Where at the beginning, maybe you could have come up with your plan to water the street. Now you're operating from a plant, uh a place where there's just no trust there, that the county isn't willing to work with you. They say it's our way or the highway.
SPEAKER_01:They've kind of got you at that point, right?
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. You have to do whatever they say. Where if you start at the beginning, you can usually find a solution. Find a solution that works for everybody. But at that point, you're just left having to do whatever they tell you needs to be done.
SPEAKER_01:What's the most difficult zoning land use project that you've worked on in Nebraska?
SPEAKER_02:Oh gosh, they're all difficult in different ways, Mark.
SPEAKER_01:How about rewarding? Most rewarding, one that just you said, we got it done, everyone's happy, life is good. Go big red.
SPEAKER_02:Right? I know I got to work on a large uh operation out in western Nebraska. That that was that was fantastic. It's amazing to, you know, I've been working looking at maps, I've been working with the same people for years. Usually, you know, by the time that you actually start to dirt turn dirt on a project, I may have been working on it for anywhere from one to five years, depending on the level of difficulty. So to actually then get to go out to the site, you know, to get to drive on the road that I probably spent a year of my life trying to figure out how we'd get the road there and how thick the concrete needed to be and how wide it needed to be, how many turns were in that road, uh, to actually get to go and drive that road and see everything rising up out of the ground is just an incredible feeling. It's it's amazing.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome. So, and one of the things we ask all of our guests, you get one word and you only get one word, and there's no cheating. You get one word that best describes and explains this great place in which we live, in which you were raised, in which we both work, the state of Nebraska. What's your one word?
SPEAKER_02:You know, you warned me you were gonna ask me this question, and I was I was thinking about that because you know, one word is just obviously not enough. After some thought, I came down to maybe my one word was gonna be support. The reason for that is here, everybody wants to see me succeed, right? That, you know, I've got incredible uh colleagues here at Rembold, I've got an incredible community. You know, you hear in some places that, well, if you if you don't do well, we've got somebody lined up to replace you. Nebraska, everybody I work with, if I have an idea, the question is how can they support it? You know, how can they make it work? Um, from business to you know, personal life to family life. Everybody here wants to see me succeed, and I want to do my best to um you know, to succeed for myself and for that community.
SPEAKER_01:Perfect. And thanks for joining us today. Grateful that you would share your expertise with our listeners. The folks uh have farm and ranch land use questions. What's the best way to get a hold of you?
SPEAKER_02:Uh the best way to get a hold of me is either through phone or email. I'm sure we've got um my email is at apost at remboltlawfirm.com. Email's a great way, or phone number. We've got the firm phone number, 402-475-5100. Give me a call.
SPEAKER_01:If you enjoyed today's episode, consider sharing it with your family and friends. And please keep listening as we release additional episodes on Nebraska, it's great communities, Nebraska's number one industry, agriculture, and the folks who make it happen.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks. This has been Nighty Three, the podcast. Sponsored by Nebraska's law firm, Rembolt Ludke.
